More Kiger Stories

Edited to ADD:

HUGE misinformation alert!

There is a circulating rumor that no horses are in Riddle and Kiger anymore.

WRONG.

Animals are being released (and a few left) to create a breeding population that will continue to give the adoption program “Kigers.” It is how this “Kiger” thing works.

This has been, and will continue to be, more akin to a “range breeding program” than managing a wild population. In order to maintain that you need “breeding stock.” The herd was rounded up to remove the “white” in an attempt to create a specific outcome for the next foal crop.

My photos are being circulated with this rumor. Please be aware that these photos are copyright protected as stated on this website. Any insinuation that they come from another individual is against the law. Expressed permission is required from myself to include in any newsletter or publication. If you put the pics on a message board you must link to the source and not imply you took them. If it becomes necessary that I take the time to watermark I will. I have avoided it because it takes away from the content and focuses on author… but I will slow my process down if needed.

Onward.

Just quickly adding a bit more about conversation at the Burns Corral.

There were major philosophical differences but many areas of agreement.

Personal opinion on the wild v. feral debate is irrelevant.

That concept is not understood by many that support or work in this program, Burns was no exception.

Wild Horses are more appropriately reference as a “returned native species.” This makes them compatible with the ecosystem.

Wild herds of horses are not the same as European cattle on a range or a pack of golden retrievers. However if Congress said the retrievers were to be managed as “wild” then that would be the law.

But back to the Burns Corral.

While I waited for the first load of Riddle horses a couple pulled in with a trailer. They were returning a horse to the BLM.

They explained to me that they had taken two horses (8 year old geldings from Stinking Water) hoping to have two saddle horses. One worked out but the other did not. Their trainer said he was not ever going to be a “good candidate.”

They plan on adopting two younger horses at an event where the horses have already had some training.

Here he is:

I need a home with lots of patience... or maybe someone that can let me "just be"

I was told that they would not have trouble finding him a new home. I was surprised. An eight year old gelding that now has one strike, in this three strike system, that was returned “untrainable.” No problem?

I was then told a story about an old grey. Returned and needing a place to go. An “unofficial” email adoption chain was started and the boy now has his own website: http://argosjourney.blogspot.com/2008/06/history-of-kiger-mustang.html (link posted here, but I do not agree with the “feral” mindset of the adopter)

OK… an extra mile. I was told other stories about horses with “no where” to go. Including those that made their way to employees home corrals.

Then I meet the grey. The grey that wanted to jump the panels in holding. The grey that showed real fear. I said that if they can’t place him to let me know and I would give it a try. I was told that he will be adopted at the fall event, confidently. I will check back on him, though.

very pretty grey

Wanted to add a picture of the padding. It was nice to see this. It will be nice to see this at Temporary. If I have a competent BLM wrangler proudly express that they cut down “significantly” on injury there is no reason BLM contractors should not be using them as well.

To me this is an example of how a “simple” discussion gets turned into “battle lines in the sand” because of an obstinate connection with the past and prideful ways.

Simple improvement

This is why it’s needed

Riddle horse at Temporary

To me this is a clear example of most of the dialogue that occurs within this program. Simple conversations are met with an obstinate attitude that if you are an “advocate” you have no knowledge worth listening to. If you care about a foal that suffered hoof slough after a winter roundup over volcanic rock, you are an “emotional” responder without comprehension of horses. I’m getting tired of it.

I was not received that way at the Burns Corral and for that I thank them.

There are other horses at the Corral that need adoption. This sweet young thing saw me pull around and cautiously came to the fence line. After a minute to reassure I was touching a velvet muzzle. Cute bug.

Sweet horse

Another couple pulled into the lot. They were looking for a horse, maybe two. I also believe they were looking for information on the program itself. We talked and I showed them horses and talked about making sure they choose a horse suitable to their purpose and not just for color. We talked about the prison training programs and other HMA’s. They took an adoption application and asked for my card to help them find a horse. I then had to explain who I was.

They asked if I did training. I explained I live on the road but..  for me things can take two months, six months a year or never happen. For someone like me it’s about the journey of relationship and not the destination.

They shook my hand, took contact info and left. I think I will hear from them. When I do I think they will have adopted horses from Twin Peaks.

I will write more soon…

I’m tired and I apologize for the unedited rambling that may be a hard read. Yet I wanted to get these out before they are buried in the next chapter.

I am working on a piece that addresses the phrase most often used to dismiss an advocate: “Wild and Free”

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47 thoughts on “More Kiger Stories

  1. Barbara Warner says:

    They are all so beautiful. Why can’t they just let them be wild and free as they should be ? They are symbiotic to the ecosystem as a native species.

    • Laura Leigh says:

      I am working on a piece that perhaps can explain that concept in language that “other” ears might understand.
      “We” get that concept.
      I should have time to finish it soon…

  2. elliroo says:

    If the grey still needs a home Please post. I will let my friend know she loves greys, kigers and she speaks horse!!

  3. Kathy M says:

    Not liking the flag position in the pic of temp, but there is no way to tell from that one shot where he was sending it. The contract staff is supposedly getting training but it’s not something that will change right away unless they are willing and focus on improving.
    Burns makes a big production over the Kiger adoptions. It’s a two day event people travel. I heard at the last one only approved bidders were allowed in the room and all were sold auction style.
    I am not suprized to hear you talked someone into a Twin Peaker. I’ve had my girl 9 years and my daughter recently adopted one of her own.

    • Laura Leigh says:

      If you are a man looking for a nice-looking, big, solid minded, bay trail horse… Twin Peaks is the first HMA in this area that comes to mind.
      : )
      When I get the series of shots posted you will like the photos even less. I shoot stills rapid fire, sometimes I can get 6 frames a second. I need a better lens because the viewing is often at such an unreasonable distance.

      Internet right now is making it difficult to load large files. Bit I am putting together a comprehensive report and video… but it may be a few days yet before I can get it loaded. I don’t have the luxury of going “home” and writing… it is not the path I chose.

      But I am on the road already and doing my best to stay “now” in observation.

      But I do need help to keep doing this. This is a “we” effort. I hope what I give helps to keep the public in “now” toward a dialogue with each representative to get this program also in the “now” and pull it out of the historic mud pit.

  4. Forest Horse says:

    I don’t really get how Argo is a success story. I don’t see any note of anything about the actual horse in his new environs on the blogsite? There are a lot of words but no real content about a specific 18 year old wild horse named Argo.

    Thanks for another great report….nonetheless!

    • Laura Leigh says:

      But it had his picture.
      I looked briefly and saw all the ‘feral” stuff.

      He was returned to the Coral and they searched for a place for him. I asked for a picture and they told me about the website.
      Basically it was an “extra” they didn’t have to do. They could have just let him go into “long term pasture” (cough) but went above their prescribed responsibility.
      It was just an example of the kinds of stories….

      Instead of being glared at and told you can’t come in… it was a different experience.

      • Forest Horse says:

        My cynical nature took over for a moment. Yes. It was very heartening to hear of your reception and that there is a relationship between the Burns Corrals and the wild horse that they are to care for. I adopted a little Kiger from Burns several years ago. He had a white spot on his face and nose so was only $200! The experience with the Burns employees was very positive at that time. Thanks again for your work for the horses…

  5. MargoWolf says:

    Take care, stay safe. mar

  6. Look into his face (first picture) , God i love him so much , who is the lucky one having him , how much God loves that person whom would give him a WARM LOVING home and heart to live in ? who is that person ?
    But don’t you doubt , they all have a place in my heart , they all do , i love them all with all my heart .
    PH.

  7. You are bringing tears to my eyes as I read….Thx for the updates
    Laura Bless You and sending strength

  8. Barara Joseph says:

    Thank you for sharing this story.
    I’m glad that Burns correls was different from the other BLMs. Maybe the other places could learn a thing or two from them.
    Thank you for all you do.

  9. sandra petranek says:

    “A Good Horse Is Never A Bad Color”, Wonderful book by Mark Rashid, very accomplished writer and horse trainer. I will say with my small amount of taking on starting horses, messed up horses…All I’ve ever heard about the mustangs are, your timing with these horses needs to be next to perfect or you may get rightfully hurt. I can not even imagine how someone could come and be that naive that these horses are All going to want to join up w. a human – being rode, be placed into a stall, etc…..without months, and maybe years of solid work to lead into a place of trusting humans. Somehow people want to take out what nature put in and expect a horse to do just that. I respect thoses horses that say, NO WAY IN HELL! Look at us humans. We know so little about what it’s like to truly live from the land, with lack of comfort and from an animal that mentally thinks the opposite of us….

    • Laura Leigh says:

      Personally I have found that the young wild ones are very curious and easy.

      Taking a horse out of the slaughter pipeline is more risk… you have the mistakes of others to deal with.

      But you have to have realistic expectation and enjoy each moment without rigid goals.

      I have one that others deemed dangerous and sent to slaughter. She had been so roughly handled, she had so much distrust. She would test me… bite at me or other aggressive behavior to see if I’d break my promise to her. I never did… and she finally learned to trust me. She is my soul.

  10. savewildhorses says:

    ‎”Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius – and a lot of courage – to move in the opposite direction.” — Albert Einstein

    Let’s hope the BLM finds their courage and starts moving in the right direction. Something as simple as padding on bars and how about shelter from the elements at all holding facilities. And agree with you on the feral thing. It drives me crazy. It is a moot point. They could be golden retrievers as you said, if the law declares them integral to OUR land and protected that’s what they are. People can call them feral until they are blue in the face. They are still protected under federal US law.

  11. MA Moore says:

    Thank you dear Laura for the updates, we are all eagerly watching, reading, praying and chanting for the madness to end. Thank you for all you do for our wild ones!

  12. polopaula says:

    I love the stories and the information that you are sending. Everything that you write is entertaining or educational, or both. You have my appreciation and admiration. It is easy to be bitchy about everything especially considering how tired you are, but truly amazing when you can give credit when deserved, and compliments when people have made improvements.
    You are a wonderful representative for our cause.

  13. From the wild Stallion whom lost his home and family :
    They Came , they had Two legs , it was impossible to look into their eyes , each time i turned my head trying so hard to look them into their eyes it was impossible , they took my home , burned everything to the ground , made my home into ashes , they captured me , separated me from my family , they killed two of us , separated mother from child father from wife , they burned my home and my heart , who are these two legged creatures ? why are they so violence and cruel ? don’t they have home and family ? don’t they have loved ones ? did the same God whom created me created them too ? does the two leg have heart and passion ? Why did all my kind served this two leg creature , why ?

    I wrote these words with tears , i couldn’t see my monitor ,
    PH.

  14. don’t you feel shame looking into my eyes ? don’t you feel disgrace looking into my face ? do you call yourself human with a heart and passion , your full of lies .

  15. Thank-you Laura for introducing us to what is going on with the BLM and all the equine there. It is horrendous and we are doing all we can from England to support you. These are wild horses and burros; they are beautiful and there is room for them to stay free. BLM has no right to round them up, store them, and ultimately send them to slaughter in Mexico …or Canada.

    We have found no logical scientific evidence as to why these round-ups are necessary. It proves to the world that the BLM (Bob Abbey) has a hidden agenda which is impossible to justify given the cruelty involved and the massive costs. Thank you Laura again – we love the wild ones too and we want our children and future generations to visit and see America’s precious wild inheritance.

  16. Spanish Sage Ranch says:

    Laura, I am glad BLM in Burns did some modifications that helped the horses, and that you found them so helpful.

    However, aside from thinking that you need an education on what the Kiger and Riddle herds are about and why they are seperated, why they were created, and populated with specific types of horses, I am also very very puzzled and concerned about this story you got about the grey stallion, Argos.

    I don’t know what they told you, but Argos was no “returned” or rejected adoptee. He was gathered along with the other Kigers, and 18 ueaer old grey stallion. No one bid on him at the auction.

    However, soon after there was internet interest in this stallion, and it was decided by BLM that they would have an email-submitted-only bidding on the horse, and whomever had the high bid would get him. That is how he ended up in Pennsylvania. So unless there is more to this story that I am not aware of, and for some reason he was rejected, and BLM did what they never do, and bring horses back west from the east, the horse that they showed you, if you are meaning that they showed you a grey horse and said he was Argos the Kiger stallion that was adopted after the 2007 adoption, has me very confused as to accuracy.

    Can you clarify this?

  17. Andi says:

    Thank you Laura! I’m glad you came and visited with the folks from the corrals! Sad about the return but I know some of the Stinkingwater horses can be a little “hotter” than others; many of them trace back to cavalry remounts that were mostly Saddlebreds.

    Did you meet “Mo”? The bay gelding with the halter scar on his nose that the BLM staff use as a saddle horse? He ended up in a kill buyers pen; a nice woman in the valley got him and promptly called the Burns BLM. They bought him from her and brought him to the corrals, broke him to ride (at 16 or 17, I think!) and use him for one of their saddle horses. He’s a cool horse!

    On the gray stallion: I think Laura was referring to 2 gray stallions; the gray stallion that came in to the corrals from the Riddle HMA (in the chutes above); and Argo, who was from the 2007 adoption. He was a “Sale Authority” horse since he was 17 years old, and didn’t go at the regular adoption. There was a great deal of interest in him, so they had a silent bid type adoption, via email, with interested parties. That is how he got to PA.

    • Laura Leigh says:

      I think it’s important that we distinguish between common practice and the unusual. Many folks in Burns will say “BLM” does a good job. I think they also need to distinguish that it is the Burns Corral and not “BLM.”

  18. Spanish Sage Ranch says:

    Laura, I see you are creating warm and fuzziness with Andi Harmon and the folks at Burns BLM. Andi is incorrect; the grey stallion known as Argo was offered at the 2007 adoption, and he is listed in the adoption catalogue. His tag number was 8117, and I remember the situation clearly. There were one or two people who, once there was an internet-created interest in him, became very interested and I wondered if they were so interested, why they did not bid on him at the auction when they were there, as was I.

    But my question remains, Laura, did BLM tell you that Argo was the grey stallion in the pens, and that Argo was a reject returnee, and that it was they who started a blog about him? It was the adopter who started the blog, and as far as I know he is still appreciated and loved in Pennsylvania

    • Laura Leigh says:

      No.
      The grey I saw just came in off of the Riddle.
      He has “wild” in great measure in him.
      I am concerned about him.

      Argo was one of the stories about how they work to find places for horses. Returned or otherwise not the “usual” adoption candidates. I wanted to know how they had 100%. Was it just the auction? Sometimes they take “extra” time.
      It was unusual to get that kind of “access” to horses in the facility and recognition of them as individual “stories.”

      The “cozy” comment is interesting though.
      I was given access and “hospitality” at a processing facility. I am usually shut out and treated like I have leprosy.
      I did not see Andi.
      If she has pertinent info to share it is welcome.
      However I think it is important for people that support the Burns Corral crew that they stop saying “BLM” does a good job and recognize that they are really saying “Burns Corral” does a good job.

      • savewildhorses says:

        Andi was a sponsor of Sue Wallis’ Horsemeat convention. She is pro round up and pro BLM. I think that is the coziness SSR is referring to. They are very cozy with the BLM in Oregon. These folks will practically cheer when horses are rounded up in the gather pens enjoying their last steps of freedom forever. They love their BLM and they love wild horses in captivity.

  19. Louie Cocroft says:

    Laura, that grey that is so frightened…will he have to go through castration? Any idea of his age? That has to be really hard on a mature Stallion. What is the reason that he can’t be returned to the range?

  20. kara says:

    Just to clarify some points on Argo since he seems to have stirred up some interest during this latest gather. I am his owner, Kara, in Pennsylvania. He was gathered in 2007 at the age of 16 and put into the adoption catalog. Why he was not turned back at his age, I have no idea other than he was grey. I was not at the adoption. No bids were placed on him the day of the adoption. Through a friend I heard about him because she knew I had a huge soft spot for greys. I called the Burns office, was told about the email adoption and sent my bid. He became a sale authority horse because of his age. I still filled out an application to become an adopter, but did not have to wait the 1 year for title. I received title the day I picked him up. Hope this clears everything up. Argo is doing fine, he is know 21 years old. I have let his blog lapse due to surgery, life, etc… But rest assured he is well and doing fine. If you start at the beginning of the blog and work backwards you will see the progression of Argo from day one.

  21. kara says:

    Also, I believe when people ask about Argo the BLM has referred them to my blog. We have corresponded over the years and they commented through phone and email with me, so they are aware of the blog and it would not suprise me if they refer people to it when asking about Argo.

    Furthermore, I do believe Argo is a success story. The fact that at his age to be gathered, shipped across the country, put into a situation where he finds himself now, live with an 11 year old QH stud who pesters and plays with him all day long, and then to be poked, prodded, photographed, sat with, loved on and never have a care in the world again is a success. Will he ever be saddled and ridden, probably not, that was never my intention, but what I have learned from him and him from me could fill volumes. Yes, I do believe he is a success!

    • Laura Leigh says:

      Yes, Kara.
      For an “old man” to find someone to have that commitment to “be” with him as “he is” … is a wonderful success.

    • Forest Horse says:

      Great to hear about Argo’s success. I can be a little jaded at times. :o>
      best to you and Argo!

    • Poor Ginger says:

      Kara, I admire your tenacity in sticking with Argo and giving him a loving home where he can “just be a horse”. A real “success” in my book!

      I read more of your blog, and came across further information in “Argo Pictures – One Year Ago”, under your photos “Argo as he is today” (November, 2008). I didn’t copy it, since I haven’t asked for your permission, but I hope you don’t mind if I put up the direct link. I feel what you’ve said is very important. I share your questions about why, at his age and with his obvious quality, was he not allowed to remain?

      http://argosjourney.blogspot.com/2008/11/one-year-ago.htmlhttp://argosjourney.blogspot.com/2008/11/one-year-ago.html

      So what does the BLM want in their “Kiger breeding program”? Argo should be a perfectly acceptable color, since the horses “reintroduced” by the Spanish came in many colors, including grey. And I can’t believe that none of them had white markings. The determing factor should be the percentage of Spanish Colonial blood and the genetic markers.

      Am I missing something here?

      • kara says:

        Ginger, You may copy the picture as long as you give reference back to the blog and credit to me. Thank you for taking the time to read through the blog. A lot of emotions went into writing it. I have never received a straight answer as to why he was removed from Riddle. Some say it was the lack of forage, some say because he looked so poor and feared his demise, (I feel that is the circle of life as harsh as it might seem.) others stated because they truly felt him adoptable (cough). Through my own research I suspected it was merely because of his color. In defense, when the first Kigers were gathered and placed on Kiger and Riddle Mountain, the thought was to preserve the strong dun gene as well as structure. Color was first though. I believe Ron Harding saw the genetic strength in Argo and horses like him and kept them on the HMA’s for that reason. He also believed at the time, Argo was a “claybank” as well. Though once that was realized to not be true, he still kept him out there, I believe with the hope to pass on his structure to future foal crops. I feel the thought was, that if grays were produced (50/50 shot) they would be gathered, to keep the dun gene from being diluted, but that the structure would endure. Coming from a breeding background, if there is one glaring fault I continue to see in several Kigers is the weak hind end on them. Argo has a very strong hind end, along with other great attributes, which is why I believe strongly Ron kept him out there for so long. Once Ron left though, I believe the captive bred breeders found an opening to get Argo and other greys out of there, not realizing it would hurt their structure in later generations. They were more worried about buyers coming back years later, upset that their “rare claybanks” had turned grey.
        Please remember this is only my opinion, extrapolated from research I have done over the past several years.

        As far as your last questions, unfortunately I cannot answer them with certainty. I don’t know what the BLM wants currently in their “breeding program”, but I can tell you Argo’s years out there have started to show an impact on the quality of horses in this most recent gather (At some point Argo had been put on Kiger Mountain as well and then moved to Riddle later, where he was ultimately gathered for the last time.). I see a lot of his traits that were missing in previous gathers, his youngest foal crop would be 3 this year and I think Ron would be pleased in that. As far as the Spanish horses coming over to North America, again my research is extremely limited in that area, so I cannot answer that.

        Sorry to take up so much space Laura. I do appreciate the opportunity to throw my opinion out there for people to chew on.

        • Laura Leigh says:

          Kara,
          Take up as much space as you like. I am glad that you have added so much to the discussion.
          Often I can only add my “impressions,” or a brief observation, and then I need to get to the next “issue.”
          There are so many facets and nuances in this program.

          It is always my hope that what I do spurs further discussion and research by those that read what I write.

          I will also publish “guest features” if you want to do a piece on Argo I can make it a feature.

          There were two exceptional grey studs that came in and one mare that had an old wound that appeared to be from a big cat… all were stunning. The striping more evident on her legs.

          Why they were removed was beyond my understanding.
          Yes, the duns were “classic,” but the population is so small… that it is not a “wild” population, and in my opinion, a violation of the Act.

          To remove animals of good health that obviously can contribute to a stronger “gene pool” toward continued survival of the herd… is NOT my idea of “right.”

          In addition it has placed several older animals into a pen… with “pen life” as the outcome of those actions.

          The range is gorgeous and obviously has a strong predator presence…. let them live and die as what they are instead of forcing “human” on them. JMHO

  22. Louie Cocroft says:

    Kara, thank you for taking the time to let us know about Argo. It sure is good to hear a success story. They have been far and few between. It bolsters our spirits when we DO hear one.

  23. Andi says:

    You’re right Laura — I need to clarify more when I talk about the BLM, because I generally mean the Oregon BLM, not the BLM in general. Because it’s Oregon that I know and respect the majority of what they do. I have no idea why Dianne Pinney/Spanish Sage Ranch thinks it’s a bad thing to be friendly to me, nor what I have ever done to her but it doesn’t matter. What DOES matter is that the best is being done for these horses!

    • Laura Leigh says:

      I understand her “red flag” with you.
      Someone that says “BLM” in the general terms you use appears to be someone not comprehending the “big” picture AND in those districts there is still a lot that is wrong according to the intent of the Act.

      The people at the Corral are great.

      But policy is still being carried out that IS NOT good for wild populations.

      So distinguishing language is going to be really important as we all look for the things that “work” and the things that don’t… honestly… toward change.

      BTW: Good luck with that filly… she’s a cutie and has lost everything she ever knew.

      • Andi Harmon says:

        Yes, very true. I often forget that not everyone knows I am speaking of the Burns BLM staff, who truly do care and understand and do all they can to have a successful program.

        Thanks on the little one! She is absolutely nothing short of amazing! I can’t believe that in less than an hour of being here, she was already learning to lead/follow and loving all the attention! She is smart as a whip, very correct conformation, friendly and curious. I think there are 3 people coming to see her for the Kiger Fest adoption! And she’s a gray! She *might* be a dun with the gray gene but for sure a gray. She will make someone a find horse! Now if she would just help me name her … or tell me her name! LOL

    • savewildhorses says:

      No idea? Really? And the best is not being done for the horses.

  24. Poor Ginger says:

    Kathy, flagging on the “drive line”, as well as padding on the overheads and in other problem areas of the traps were part of the “recommendations” by the 4 vets who observed at a couple of last year’s roundups. They also “recommended” the traps and pens be round or oval, to avoid horses “getting stuck” in corners, which is part of the BLM Procedures included in every Gather Plan.

    In my not-so-humble opinion, these women witnessed a “staged” roundup. The BLM even build a special viewing platforms especially for them! I’m sure the wranglers and helicopter pilot had been told, “Company’s comin’. Be on your to be best behavior!”. The observers still commented on what they considered dangerous set-ups and improper handling. They had no reason to mention anything they hadn’t

    • Poor Ginger says:

      “They had no reason to mention anything they hadn’t seen.”

      I’m having trouble posting comments on some, but not all, WordPress blogs, including here. I get a strange box that doesn’t mention my name and won’t take my whole comment without a tedious scrolling process. Does anyone have a suggestion on getting back to the way things used to be?

    • Laura Leigh says:

      I sent in a report as well to the Advisory Board and BLM.
      It identifies that my observations are not from crafted observation and exactly how protocol changed when the selected observers show up.

      But WTF do I know.

  25. Louie Cocroft says:

    Ginger, I have noticed the same thing and have the same question

    • Poor Ginger says:

      Louie, is your comment in reference to the “breeding program”? I did a bit more research and have come to the conclusion that the BLM is breeding for a horse as close to a Sorraia as the can get.

      This is a page from the “Sorraia Information Site”

      “DUN FACTOR COLOR AND WHITE MARKINGS”
      http://www.sorraia.org/Dun_factor_color,_white.html

      They’re for “getting the white out” as well, which, in my experience with purebred breeders of any species, translates to, “Kill the defective animal before it can reproduce!”

  26. Why human has to hate this ANIMAL so much ?
    Why do we hate the Horse so much ? is it because we are using Cars now days ?
    I just don’t get it , don’t understand it , why to hate them so much ? why to destroy them so much ? why ?

    thank you Laura for what you do , blessings from deep in my heart .

  27. Louie Cocroft says:

    Ginger, my comment was regarding the blogs that we are on, not the breeding program ( I didn’t venture into that territory). I was having a problem posting. It’s possible that the problem was at this end.

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