Warm Springs

2010 November 5

 

Notes

Meet 4:30 am BLM office Burns
Drive like a bat out of hell in the pitch dark on rocky roads
thank god tires not flat
arrive at trap site  in the ptch dark
sat in car for over an hour waiting for sunrise

Sun J chopper refueling for the fourth time

got to observation location around 7:30
contractor shows up 9:20
helicopter fuels 10:06
refuels around noon…
refuels around 2…
BLM PR asks if horses today
contractor confirms there will be horses coming in
refuels at 3:30
Deb Coffey blows a gasket and wants to know just how far those horses are being run in a day and isn’t time to call this off
BLM PR goes to trap to talk to contractor
BLM “decides” it is time to call it off to rest horses.

note: single trap location chosen for entire HMA

Temporary Holding

Go to temp holding
denied accesss to view mares and foals because contractor has their two year old playing by pens

New contractor
“Sun J”
Vernal Utah
All nice new EXPENSIVE equipment, lots of it.

Only two observation days offered, no reschedule, no return

No horses rounded up today.

But who knows what happened with the ones run that we did not see.

Sunset

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141 thoughts on “Warm Springs

  1. Morgan Griffith says:

    Hmmmmmmm whole lot of fuel being used to “not” move horses. Ya right.

  2. Forest Horse says:

    It would be nice to have the press IN the helicopter. Transparency.
    I just read this article. It is woo woo but does discuss the wild horses.

    http://www.anaflora.com/articles/channelings/speak-3.html

    • Anna says:

      re: Proverbs; Sayings; Essays; short stories; parables…

      Take a look at Job 39:5-9 written 3000+ years ago. Does this speak to us?

      “Who let the wild donkey go free?
      Who unleashed his ropes?
      I gave him the wasteland as his home,
      the salt flats as his habitat.
      He laughs at the commotion in the town;
      he does not hear a driver’s shout.
      He ranges the hills for his pasture
      and searches for any green thing.”

      • Anna says:

        Mojave desert has salt flats; blm zeroed out Burros there ! they rounded up the last 6 in 2008 or so;

        blm will pay ! @ A.W.

  3. Mar Wargo says:

    The two year old needs to stay with a sitter at home. More arrogance from the contractors. More horses run to death out of sight, but not out of mind. You got there and this is what they call observation. Sorry for your travails, L. Take care.. mar

    • cat Kindsfather says:

      I ditto that Mar, leave the kid at home!! If its not safe for advocates to be close to the trap, what the hell is a two year old doing there!!! So much BS.

      Sorry about the grueling day you guys had, and obviously the horses suffered too.

      New contractor?? A blessing, or possibly from pan into the fire???
      Thanks to you and Deb for consistent following of roundups observation, or trying at least! Keep those eyes on them!!!
      Blessings….

    • L. Griffith says:

      Obvious question, but a two year old can play by the pens, but the observers are put a half mile to a mile away from the roundup activities?

      This one has to go into the pantheon of BLM antics that make you go .. “hmmmmm??”

  4. Lori Schmidt says:

    Hang in there Laura, take care! 😦

  5. sandra longley says:

    I hope you were able to go out today, i had vehicle problems and unable to make it..i was told some time ago that after this observation-they would be moving to the Diamond side of the HMA to gather and would be no observation over there..I thought a 4:30 am meet time was awfully early for this time of year and received a call that meet time was later for today-5:45

    • Laura Leigh says:

      I gave them a bit of…. that 4:30 was nuts if the contractor starts at 10.

      No they would not let anyone in after “one shot.”

      Still rather much to do and see here…
      : )

      Hope you feel better.

      I was told they want to use one site for this one.

  6. sandra longley says:

    Yes, they admitted pregathering to me as well at the Stinking water roundup, horses are very tired by gather day

    • savewildhorses says:

      I still think this is why they were so afraid of horses dying of thirst at Owyhee because they had been driving them away from water for days. No wonder they dropped dead from water intoxication at the gather site. The frigging contractors kept them from water. There has to be more accountability on what is going on out there away from observers.

  7. R.T. Fitch says:

    …and so the inhumanity continues. If not for your presence, no would know nor would the bulk of the world even care.

    It all makes my chest hurt.

  8. Robin Bailey says:

    Who is this new contractor “Sun J”? They are on the schedule to round up the Antelope Complex horses in January 2011. I was relieved that Cattoor wasn’t going to be the contractor, but now it sounds as if this outfit is just as bad. “One shot”? Sounds like they’ve been talking with Dave Cattoor. And with their nice, new expensive equipment – we should do some digging on this contractor. They and the Cattoor’s are the only two helicopter contractors listed on the 2010/2011 roundup schedule. And Sun J is not listed on the BLM’s contractor list for the period ending 11/30/10. I can’t find the updated list for 2010/2011 yet. I think I just heard the other shoe drop…..

    Somebody call child welfare services – if it’s too “dangerous” for Laura and
    company to be at the pen, then what the heck is a two year old child doing there?!

    Stay safe, Laura and Deb – you, too, Sandra, if you get to make it out there!

    • Linda H says:

      Sun J was the contractor at East Douglas Piceance Creek, which I attended. On the days before I was there, they had roped and draggged a mare into a truck–then shot her. They roped a colt, broke its legs and then shot it. They shot another mare who had a “weak heart.” 2 colts were later euthanized who were severely lame–had “pre-existing conditions.” When I asked who they were, BLM said it was a combination former Cattoor people and I later learned it was actually Cook resurrected. We were given prolonged access to the corrals, however, thanks to the state BLM Dir. of Communications. I can’t imagine the horror this present roundup presents.

      • Mar Wargo says:

        The worst of the worst. They will fall hard. mar

        • Roxy says:

          Bloody Jody L Homs of Sun J! Can’t ever wash that blood and cruelty from your soul no matter how hard you try!

          Speaking of Jody – how come these big hero cowboys of the west always put women out to take the heat? Jody, Sue, Debbie Collins. Need I say more?

  9. Anna says:

    yeah call child welfare; what is a 2 yo doing near “herds of wild stampeding mustangs; are these people “nuts or what?

    something is terribly wrong with The BLM Wh & B Program run by the Officials of D.C.

    they are either “intoxicated or just plain IGNORANT + DUMB; unknowledgeable; uneducated; or just plain stupid !

    two year olds playing @ trap site; ever hear of babysitters?

  10. Anna says:

    http://www.dreamcatcher.typepad.com/

    this sanctuary has a “800 acres set just for Stallions…

    at this Sanctuary: Stallions are kept separate from the Mares to prevent unwanted Breeding; as a management tool to control the population of the Herds

    compare that to what the BLM does…The BLM puts 272 unfixed Stallion TO A HERD OF MARES…

    and this is how the BLM “doubles the herds every 4 yrs.

    (and the exact reason the blm sites for rounding them up which is the Mustangs have “no natural predators…

    No; the reason the Herds double every 4 yrs. is becuz the BLM breeds stallions and mares in the wild;(secretly; imo…

    ps why fix the mares; why not just separate the stallionsduh

    • morganlvr says:

      Anna ~ You cannot separate mares and stallions if you’re going to leave them on the range in their natural state. Isn’t that what we’re fighting for – the horses to be left alone to live as nature intended? Or am I missing something?

      • Laura Leigh says:

        I think there are mixed concepts…?

        Wild need to be reproducing to continue natural behavior.

        “Warehousing” is set up for non-breeding. No matter if you call it pasture, sanctuary, hotel horse… it’s warehousing. Different concept.

        If we remember we started with (wild and integral) 303 areas and now have less than 180 that have wild horses left I think the adgenda becomes clear.

      • Anna says:

        oh I see; and what are you going to do when there are “too many Mustangs in the herd ? round them up ?

        what you do is you separate the Stallions from the Mares and puts thousands of Geldings in the sancturay (the sancturay would be millions of acres of land..)

        and then when you want to breed mustangs; you simply open up secret corral gates which would let one or two mustangs into the herd to breed with mares

        the corrals and sancturay and refuge I envision for the mustangs would be

        an intricate pattern of wild life land and hidden natural corrals with hidden safe trails for the mustangs

        but I do not believe Mustangs can breed indiscriminately: there would be too many

        what would YOU morganlvr do with “extra Mustangs?

        • Roxy says:

          Anna, that is almost exactly what they do at Black Hills Wil Horse Sanctuary – but no secret gates – they report that the stallions almost go on their own same time every year with very little to no coaxing.

          Check out their website – very interesting stuff there

      • Roxy says:

        I think there are two separate topics here – 1. How a Sancturary can be reproducing without ‘over reproducing” 2. Wild – left alone on the Public Lands.

        Existing Sanctuaries, most of which are not over 10 years old, have been selling fouls for years for population control – thus direclty competing with BLM adoptions.

        Black Hills Sanctuary, that many tout as the premier Sanctuary planning model, does exaclty what Anna portrays AND still has to sell fouls (2010, so far, the only years in which no fouls have sold, however there are several posted there that are for sale).

        Most reproducing sanctuaries have small numbers of horses. Wild Animal Biology 101- small numbers = compensatory breeding.

        This is also BLM/Roundup business plan 101 = keep the herd sizes to lowest end of genetic viability = compensatory breeding, especially in over drive once PZP has worn off between the 5 year round-up schedules = never ending roundups.

        Some have reported (not confirmed) that Pryors for example stayed at about 250 on their own for eons before BLM came along.

  11. savewildhorses says:

    It is not just the practice that running horses for 6 hours is horrific and inhumane, it is the practice of running them in a state of TERROR for 6 hours Can’t imagine young foals keeping up being run all day. But we’ll never know because we don’t make the pilot keep a detailed report. We need to institute more humane practices in the contractor handbook. I noticed they did an instant update of their handbook when being sued and changed the foaling dates, so let’ demand another instant update, no getting within 100 feet of the horses with the helicopter and a time limit these horses may be stampeded. And sorry, if a 2 year old can be granted rights to see the horses, damn well better let people in to observe. These contractors really run the show and I am sick of it.

    • morganlvr says:

      RIGHT! They bar qualified adults but allow 2 year olds to run wild? I’d love to call them to account on this point alone. Oh, to have unlimited funds for lawyers!

  12. Andi says:

    You likely won’t print my comments but if you would like to see the horses they moved yesterday, they will be uploaded soon. Many horses are skinny. They were NOT run for 8 hours. They weren’t even ran, according to the ones who saw the gather yesterday. One horse hit the panels and broke it’s neck. It’s sad but it does happen, even with domestic horses. The horses that were moved on Friday obviously got at least 2, hour long plus breaks while the pilot refueled. Then they rested over night.

    And yeah, having the child out there was bad form. I will agree with you there! I wouldn’t have MY kid out there. I was surprised at how quiet the horses were in the temporary holding pens as well as at the corrals. I saw them unload a batch of stallions this morning at the corrals when we met there so Debra could pick up 3 she is adopting. If you care to see, look at my Facebook page, at Debra McGuire’s, Tracey Westbury’s, Mustang U, Sisters of the Steens, Maggie Rothauge’s and Oregon’s Wild Side, all on Facebook.

    • Laura Leigh says:

      Andi,
      The horses stampeded yesterday were likely the remants of the ones that were run the day before when we were there. The ones we have no “public” knowledge of… yet.

      The stallion that broke his neck yesterday wouldn’t have IF these contractors would stop tying saddle horses at the panel where the stallion comes in with his mares and foals. And would set traps that actually make sense sorting frightened animals. The “pressure” method employed needs to be accompanied by “release.” These roundups are done more like a pest control operation than a multimillion dollar operation “managing” America’s National Treasure, the wild horse.

      I listened to you all day and politely held my tongue… but this IS MY VENUE.

      You can post here… but I WILL respond.

      THE PROPAGANDA YOU SPEWED AND LACK OF KNOWLEDGE YOU DEMONSTRATED AT THE ROUNDUP WAS ENOUGH… I do not care to go to your “Facebook” page and listen to your continued BLM sales pitch.

      I was polite and friendly at the site… except I refused to be interviewed by your friend, nor did I sign any release for her… but I did so politely.

      I ask that you give me the same respect I showed you and stay out of my space.

      I’m very glad that you shared the “special” treatment you and your friends recieve from the BLM.

      • Morgan Griffith says:

        Well said Laura, enough is enough. And I too thank Andi for putting in writing the special treatment that is afforded to Andi and friends. I figure whenever I want the BLM rationalization I can go to BLM sites and sites such as Andi mentions, but I see no reason to.

      • Andi says:

        Laura,

        My “friend” (I assume you are referring to Karen, the professional film maker?) I just met that morning, just as I met you that morning.

        The horse killed on Saturday was NOT a stallion. It was a bay roan mare. It was an unfortunate accident that could have been avoided and I felt the trap site wasn’t set up as well as it could be.

        • Debbie Coffey says:

          Andi, I didn’t hear you point this out to any BLM representatives standing with us as we observed the roundup. If you had, that horse might still be alive.

          • Andi says:

            You didn’t hear me point this out to any BLM rep’s because I wasn’t there the day the mare died.

            I *did* say something to Tara about the trap site being kind of a convaluted mess; Deb and I WALKED all the way in to the capture site and walked right past the pens.

        • morganlvr says:

          How do you know so much about what happened to this unfortunate horse if you weren’t there? Have you seen the pictures? They’re on Facebook! If you haven’t, you need to look at this series of pictures. If it doesn’t make you hurt all over, there is something seriously wrong with you.

          Just as there is something seriously wrong with those wranglers who kept pressure on that horse until he/she was completely down, then blocked off view and left that horse to die.

          How can any of this be spun away?

    • savewildhorses says:

      And you know all of this how?

    • Dawna Christy says:

      Hey Andi, just so you know….the WHOLE WORLD IS WATCHING YOU. Whether you let us at the trap sites or not, we know what is going on, we will continue our fight against you, the BLM & anybody else that gets in our way to protect the WILD ONES. Your an absolute idiot if you think we are going to sit by & allow a 2 year old to have access but not the media. This is not over by a long shot. Consider yourself WARNED. THIS IS NOT A THREAT, IT’S A PROMISE!

      • Andi says:

        What??? What are you talking about?

        I have no children.

        I’m not the BLM.

        I just love wild horses and have ever since I knew what a horse was and was put aboard a “wild horse” when I was about 6 years old.

        I have NO clue what you are talking about!

        • Laura Leigh says:

          Andi… no one said the child was yours.
          What is being discussed on my blog are matters that you obviously do not know the history of.
          BLM referenced the horse as a stallion at first, so I took the reference from an email with them.

          The change from stallion to mare is a detail that does not dismiss the avoidable injury.

          I have been to more roundups than I can count on hands and feet… most of the injuries I see are repetitive and avoidable.

          If you “love” these horses and can sit there for 7 1/2 hours and spew BLM propoganda and attack advocates to the press present (she didn’t buy your crap either) please recognize that your idea of “love” is NOT mine.

          Your statements, publically made, about what I do and my motivations will again lead to me to ask you to stay on your low traffic facebook page and stay off my blog. My blog is NOT a place for you to look for attention. Go talk to your buddies at the BLM.

          • Andi says:

            I said nothing against you Laura. And I think the woman from the Bend Bulletin did a decent job, but you have to see the actual article in the paper to know. The AP news took only excerpts and the first person quoted by the Bulletin was actually Katie, Tracey’s daughter. I was quoted as well.

            I’ve been polite and considerate, I feel and haven’t passed around nasty names like you all are doing to me.

          • Laura Leigh says:

            Yes you did Andi… Go away.

        • Debbie Coffey says:

          You have no clue PERIOD.

      • Anna says:

        no offense but you and Lori smidt and others

        you should be careful about “threatening people”
        on public forums…

        it is illegal under fed state and local laws to

        threaten someone; such as i felt lori smdidt did to me!

        why have we all turned against each other ?

        we have surely lost the battle; prob. the war !

        ps Vitamins are essential nutrients for life to live !
        vitamins are not drug just the opposite

        VITAMINS ARE FROM FOOD ONLY

        SO WHAT COUDL BE THE HARM IN THAT

        YOU PEOPLE ARE NUTS GOOD BY ADIOS HASTA LUEGO
        HASTA AL NUNCA

        UNTIL NEVER IS WHAT THAT MEASN IN SPANISH

        SEE I WOUEN’ WATN TO ASSOCIATE WITH YOU JAN WITH YOU LORI AND WITH YOU MORGAN LOVER

        MORGAN LOVE WHO DOESN;’T EVEN OWN A HORSE!

    • Roxy says:

      Posted where? Please provide link to where the pictures are located. Thank you.

    • Roxy says:

      Quite? Try IN SHOCK!

  13. Lisa Norman says:

    Institute more humane practices? What happened to institution of laws? What they are doing is in violation of LAWS of many laws people. They are criminals in cahoots with special interests under the protection of government. MORATORIUM. CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION. PROSECUTION. HANG EM HIGH.

  14. savewildhorses says:

    I think some people get more excited about seeing wild horses in pens “freshly gathered” by the BLM than they do seeing wild horses out in the wild. I think some people ooooh and ahhhh over the freshly gathered horses like they are in a wild horse candy store. Personally, I prefer wild horses in the wild.

  15. Anna says:

    hello ! is this Andi Harmon ? well anyway its me Wahpoose !
    (Andi Harmon rescued a foal in 2007 named Sweetie; who is doing great today; have no idea if this is the same Andi tho’!)

    anyhoo Andi Harmon wrote:

    The horses that were moved on Friday obviously got at least 2, hour long plus breaks while the pilot refueled. Then they rested over night.

    Anne’s comment: this is where I see a serious problem in mismanagement of America’s Wild Mustangs and Burros;

    You wrote they rested overnight…anne writes; true; but from the mindboggling research i have been doing about Gather sites; traps and corrals AND the pix and video i have; IT APPEARS AS IF THE EQUINE DO NOT GET ANY HAY
    INSIDE THE “GATHER SITES TRAP PENS;

    Oh I know there are BALES OF HAY EVERYWHERE ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE GATHER SITE PENS…

    BUT LITTLE TO NONE INSIDE THE ACTUAL TRAP PENS…

    The BLM puts HUGE BALES OF HAY ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE PEN !

    Now Andi; how’s a wild mustang gonna fit his or her head mouth and jaws THRU A WICKED TINY MESHED FENCE ?

    SO THE GREEN BALES OF HAY ARE A PLACEBO TO FOOL THE people to thinking the Mustangs get Hay at trap sites

    No ! The mustangs can go up to 24 + hours with no Hay !

    and this is why so many “get sick and ill in the temp. corral

    if a mustangs does not get hay 24/7 they get “wicked sick!

    esp. after being run; and then not gettin hay; come on girl !

    • Laura Leigh says:

      Anna… If the helicopter is in the air for a total of 2 hours… the horses that are being moved are not resting 2 hours. Andi does BLM math… wonder where she learned it.

      I have NO idea who Andi Harmon is/was all I know is that I listened to “Andi” for 7 and a half hours and it was all I could do to keep a lid on responding to the non-stop commercial for the BLM.

      She may simply be another that loves her special treatment… and don’t wanna loose it.

      • savewildhorses says:

        Yes, it is the same one. She is a BLM apologist par excellence.

      • sandra longley says:

        Gosh, I am really, really sorry I missed that..but I had 1 of those at Stinking water too..and I did not keep a lid on it..I expect they called in reinforments for the propoganda core for this one..Thanks to those who came from everywhere to witness for the wild horses.

      • Anna says:

        Andi Harmon is a “blm volunteer who runs a Mustang Rescue in California; I understand how Andi can be;
        however; just for the record: Andi and her husband Tom have “saved and rescued probably a greater no. of wild mustangs foals and nursed them to health;

        than any other mustang rescue I know of; AND when i told Andi to get some Vitamin B-Complex for Sweetie the absolutely beautiful tri colored mustang foal; she did that; and the Foal turned out beautifully

        so you see every tarnished coin has a Silvery side !

        point is: I cannot blame Andi for the roundups ! I can only blame the actual prepetraitors the blm.gov!

        • Morgan Griffith says:

          I can blame someone for who they chose to associate with and what activities they chose to promote

          • Anna says:

            yes but Andi has rescued something like 30 to 50 foals that were orphaned from the blm;

            paying for their care out of pocket; donations!

            I have not rescued any foals; but I talk alot ! : )

            Laura leigh contacts the blm why is that ok?
            luv ya anyway though; your friend; Anne W.

        • Andi says:

          Anne — yes it’s me but I’m in OR. And my husband Tom passed away in September. Yes, Sweetheart was the orphan I had and you helped with the Vitamin B idea!

          I think the contractors methods and capture sites need to be changed. They DID have plenty of hay and water in the temp site where they were hauled to before taken to the corrals, so no worry there.

          I have concerns that things just aren’t done the same everywhere and I have concerns there are things being hidden from us. I don’t trust the gov’t any more than most people but I KNOW the actual PEOPLE, the ones on the ground, in Oregon and I know they do all they can with what they are dealt. It’s not a position I would want to have, ever.

          • Debbie Coffey says:

            Andi, why don’t you post these thoughts on the BLM blog if you’re so concerfned?

          • Roxy says:

            Andi, somewhere you posted you had pictures of thin horses – where will those be posted? Link please. Thank you.

          • Anna says:

            Hi Andi; oh I am sorry to hear about Tom; i did not know that; must be tough for you…so sorry; I know Sweetie the Foal is fine today !

            I have seen pix of “gather trap sites where the Hay is only on the outside of the gather site

            and no way can the Equine reach the Hay; I do think they put water in the gather sites;

            I think you are correct that each state has differnet levels of care for the Mustangs and Burros; so maybe Oregon is better;

            Litchfiedl Corral in Cal. is THE WORST i have ever seen; besides Calico of course;

            PVC is not much better ! the condtions in these corrals are bothersome to me because the condtions are not conducive to making healthy mustangs so many mustangs get sick; this makes the herd sick
            then people don’t adopt…

            the low level of adoptions is one major prob

            this is due to the way blm treat the Mustangs

            I have vidoes of blm abusing the mustangs!

  16. Anna says:

    ps I should have written “Andi wrote; not Andi harmon wrote !

  17. Anna says:

    pps and then to transport mustangs “who have empty stomachs so the hci is building up; to transport those ones over bumpy long roads; so the acid sloshes around in tummy

    see tis like this: HAY mops up excess hci (stomach acid) so if the mustang doesn’t get hay for hours; the mustangs get sick

    this is why so many “fall over and perish at the bigger corrals
    (the roundup makes them sick…

  18. Anna says:

    Andi: “115 adult mustangs ‘perished inside the Calico Corrals
    (from Dec. 29th 2009 til June or July of 2010; about 1 a week

    is that acceptable to you? NOT TO ME MY DEAR FRIEND ! AW

    • Andi says:

      Not acceptable in the least! I never said ANY death was acceptable!

      I don’t know as much about the operations in other states and from all the things I’ve read all over the place, and the people I’ve spoken to, I’m glad I live in Oregon …

      • Debbie Coffey says:

        Andi, we’re glad you live there, too.

      • Anna says:

        then if you know these roundups cause “massive harm to the mustangs due to the brutality of the roundups and the lousy conditions in the corrals why not say…

        yeah I agree the roundups could be improved; etc.
        and not support people who “purposely cause harm;

        and finally what is the point of rounding them up if only to put them in sth or lth blm “nasty filthy corrals

        I have seen pxi of litchfield corral; manure city ! why doesn’t the blm clean out the manure?

        cleaning manure is what prevents disease; thanks !A.

  19. Anna says:

    anyhoo; good news HoneyBandit the foal is doing great ! yo!

    what i wanted to discuss and will do at another time is;

    What do the Mustangs and Burros in the short term corrals and the long term corrals; since there are no stalls or stables

    WHAT DO WH&B DO DURING RAIN AND SNOW STORMS
    HOW DO THEY STAY DRY; PREVENT SICKNESS? RAIN ROT ?

    • Anna says:

      ANDI OFF TOPIC; WHAT’S THE BEST TYPE OF HAY FOR ORPHAN FOALS;

      this other foal HoneyBandit is having health problems so I was thinking maybe she is giving the “wrong type of hay;

      if you don’t read this I will contact you on your wildhorsesandburros @ yahoogroups.com forum;

      again I am sorry to hear about your husband Tom; Peace

  20. Anna says:

    MONSTER SNOW HAIL STORM CONN. ~ (and its only Nov. ?!@

  21. sandra longley says:

    This is the role of the WH&B volunteer, They didn’t bother to show up at stinkingwater to view the roundup.nor were they @ the holding pens to see the horses arrive..When I heard they were showing up @ warm springs-I knew exactly what was going on..I was the only advocate @stinging water, and addressed any disinformation that was given with an immediate response..I was not trying to start an argument but I refuse to allow propaganda to be spred..Andi- those horses were quiet because they are dead tired..please don’t play naive, I viewed those pictures last night and you failed to post anything that looked like skinny horses..and if there are a few, that does not signify anything other than a normal cycle..the Horses in the HMAs in oregon have been notoriously fat, well fed considering the amount of fencing and crossfencing that shuts them off of lands being decimated..I found nothing but cowmanure and lots of it in my pre tours of hmas-I know the cattle had earlier been removed from this..We study the maps and allotments via the EAs, so a whitewash is not going to fly here

    • morganlvr says:

      The BLM officially reports these horses to be 5-8 on the Henneke scale and “Very healthy.”

      • Linda says:

        Good Lord, where did they say “8”? A Henneke “8” (FAT) is NOT healthy – a candidate for founder and other problems. To me, any horse over Henneke “5” (Moderate) should be monitored and may need to be on put on a diet. First the mustangs are STARVING, then they’re OVERWEIGHT? What gives, oh my BLM “experts”?

  22. sandra longley says:

    In the past I have tried to be supportive of the people who volunteer with the BLM, and appreciate what you do to help the wild horses once they are rounded up, and I find the crew @ the burns facility to be exceptional for the WH&B program..That being said-the program is out of control-and that is not just our opinion as taxpayers but the growing opinion in congress-DC and amongst americans..what IS also out of control is the squezing of wild horses into smaller and smaller areas-and then trying to blame them for destruction of rangelands. If you will google public lands ranching-you will find 200 years of articles by professionals who will back me up..this is not a new problem we invented but a systemic problem of gluttony..Now I am sure that is going to raise your hackles because you ranch as do most others across the desert and ranching and working for the BLM is all that is left in that area..I am sorry to see that happen..but taking frm the horses-who have the least-is not the responsable way to increase your income..We taxpayers are tired of supporting and underwriting your business..the time has come to end it.

  23. sandra longley says:

    As breeders of horses-I would think we could both agree-we would-NEVER-under any circumstances round up or push our horses with helicopters or 4 wheelers..We recognise horses are not cattle, and you wouldn’t round up cattle that way and destroy and cause lifelong lameness to them..In Nevada we cattle on the ranch and allotments that were so wild you could only glass them and see there tails straight out running for the hills..we didn’t try to shoot them or use the ranch airplane to round them up in the fall when we gathered cattle..A rancher knows better..nor did we push cattle hard..we babyed even the boneheads..Value-you see no value in the WHs yet the american public is forking over millions to billions of dollors to finance these inhuman roundups and LTH..We have a huge stake in the destruction of these herds and we are here to stay as watchdogs to see that some serious changes are made to this program, and that only the amount of horses that can be adopted are rounded up..period..and that can be done with bait trapping

  24. sandra longley says:

    the warm springs story is being picked up across the state of oregon in news media and TV, I also found it on an Egyptian website..

  25. sandra longley says:

    Andi, here is a somewhat different version of the stallion breaking his kneck than you gave:

    On Saturday a stallion broke his neck on a fence panel. “The panel the stallion hit appeared to have been improperly set up since prior to the stallion breaking his neck, at least eight horses had a problem in that same corner and had contact with the panel. “The wranglers put a lot of pressure on with whips and bags and he jumped for it,” said Brogan Horton of Animal Rescue Unit. I think they all thought it was an exit, even a foal had attempted it earlier. After the stallion went down, a screen was put up but we could see him struggling and then we were asked to leave”.

    Reports from eyewitnesses say a young colt of about 4 or 5 months would not go into the trap. Two wranglers on horseback, double lassoed the foal with two ropes around his neck and disappeared with him behind a bluff. The wranglers rode back without the foal, and according to video of the incident, 41 minutes had passed while the wranglers ate lunch and then went to retrieve the foal from behind the bluff. The foal walked into the trap clearly exhausted with his head hanging very low.

    • Laura Leigh says:

      Sandra… at the roundups NOTHING you say is going to change anything. What you report has a chance.
      Those there “spewing” are in a self-righteous mode and usually simply chest beating. It is a way for them to feel important.
      Media interviews can get out and I’m glad that the interview I gave at the sight was actually used. I was unsure if the interviewer had made up her mind yet…. but there was intelligence and a light in her eye… so I spoke.

      I have lost it at times at the trap myself when you witness sheer stupidity causing harm… or absolute callousness.

      But the skulls you are talking to at the trap are thick… and all they will use your attempts at reasonable conversation for are to label you “difficult.”

      BIG HUG.,..
      I understand.

      • sandra longley says:

        I am not there to change “their” mind..I could care less what they think and that is pretty obvious..but they have been in charge of this conversation for the past 40 years and there are other people at those round ups who have only heard that one side.. I managed to inform 2 people who had only heard that one side..that is so biased and full of self interest..old mark was the only mega phone there when i was there, and I knew more from my research about the history of that HMA , the horses, cattle allotments, fences, and protocols for roundups than anyone there..This is a grassroots organization in every way..and thats where it starts-by informing 2 at a time..when we hit the mainstream media..our story -the horses story does not get told..when our side gets told by the national press I will no longer need to take it to each person..WE are not there yet..no opportunity should be ignored..Put the other side out there and let people make a decison on whether they have been getting propaganda or the truth

        • Laura Leigh says:

          You look for the “lights” and speak to those…
          The rest is a dim bulb.
          : )

          Just trying to give ya’ a hug…

          Back to work… offline for a bit.

          • sandra longley says:

            Let me put this another way, In a court of law, every word you utter in questioning-in objections or statements to the judge..is part of the story you are building..for the jury..you only directly address the jury in your opening and closing statements, and yet every word you say and every piece of evidence is to convince that Jury..and thats what we are doing. Convincing the biggest jury in the world..the uninformed american public.

    • Andi says:

      I wasn’t at that gather. I didn’t see anything so you are mistaken there.

      However, it was a mare, not a stallion. Just to clarify.

      And it sucks big time that she got killed.

      • Debbie Coffey says:

        sucks big time? What a compassionate comment.

      • Anna says:

        and the point is why? why are the trap sites set up in such a fashion that AT ALMOST EVERY ROUNDUP

        some Mustangs perish in this god awful manner !

        don’t they know how to set up SAFE trap sites ? these mustangs who get lame have to live like that for yrs. !

        many get lame during that roundup and this “wrecks their lives ! t

        • Roxy says:

          Absolutely correct. I have read more than once when browsing related sites on the internet that a round corral is recommended as the frightened animals will naturally go round and round and calm down/wear out.

          Is there a reason corrals and arenas are round? Duh!

          Further, I would think any site should have tranquilizer darts for this very reason – Blue Moon had a very strong survival instinct – the fittest – the best – and their ignorance and lack of preparation and lack of “best practices” in gathering techniques and skills killed him for it. This was obvious by the many attempts needed to get him even near the chutes.

          Jody L Holms and Sun J are obviously the bottom feeders of the human race and their industry – that is probably why they get the contracts from the other bottom feeder at BLM/DOI – peas in a pod.

          • Mar Wargo says:

            Excellent point about the round pens, Rox! I think they use the square ones for stability at the corners… I know horses who could not only move a paneled round pen but knock a panel off! But they were not secured to the ground with stakes. Contractors should change… but I would rather they stop rounding our horses up permanently.

            In discussions off line, it has been accepted that Blue Moon was a mare. She was a large, robust mare and should have had a foal by her. If her foal was separated it would have added to her desperation to stay free and to get out once caught. In looking at her roundness I would say she was 5 or 6 months pregnant. She was a very fine horse. mar

  26. LOUIE COCROFT says:

    Good God! Another broken neck? The helicopters refueled how many times before the round-up “supposedly” even started?

  27. LOUIE COCROFT says:

    There is ABSOLUTELY no way that anyone of good conscience could condone these round-ups. Why else would BLM want to keep these operations away from “Congressional oversight”, as stated in the conference minutes that were obtained throught the Freedom of Information Act?

  28. LOUIE COCROFT says:

    Today is a good day to start calling all members of the Appropriations Commitees and demand that they stop funding BLM round-ups–let’s get started. Give each and every one of them a sense of your outrage!

  29. sandra longley says:

    http://www.facebook.com/feeds/notes.php?id=5810894&viewer=1370226427&key=865547c16b&format=rss20

    Animal Investigative units investigation and photos of Blue Moon hitting the panel that broke his kneck and foal that was roped and hog tied for 45 minutes

  30. LOUIE COCROFT says:

    Appropriations Commitee–let’s get started today. Review the points on Cloud Foundation memo and then call. BLM is asking for $75 million for their budget this year. Let committee members HEAR from all of us. Let them hear our ourtage. Here’s one set of phone #s—or you can call the White House switchboard:

    HOUSE COMMITTEE MEMBERS

    Davie Obey Chairman Wisconsin Dem. (202) 225-3365 D.C. office
    (715) 842-5606 Home office

    Jerry Lewis Ranking Member Rep. (202) 225-5861 D. C. office
    1-800-233-1700 Within California

    Reply

  31. Mar Wargo says:

    The waste of these horses lives is incalculable. The theft from the American People of these horses and their lands is illegal.

    The best are dying and the young have been taken where we cannot see them, either.

    You will be stopped, BLM. You will. Your days are numbered. Start counting! mar

  32. LOUIE COCROFT says:

    The 800 # for Congressman Jerry Lewis doesn’t work. This one does:
    (909) 862-6030

  33. Roxy says:

    Laura, has including Obama in the law suites been considered?

    Someone asked this over at R.T.s’ site – good question?

  34. Anna says:

    let us focus our anger and attention on the culprits of this insanity of rounding up and harming and confining healthy equine such as wild mustangs and burros…

    on the PERPETRAITORS of the cause the http://WWW.BLM.GOV

    see we are not fighting each other; we are fighting the GOV.!

    and my question is: I thought the Gov. was here to help us !
    never did i dream our very Gov. are “mustang burro abusers

    fighting the gov. is a tough fight but this can be done through Congress! CONGRESS IS THE ONLY ANSWER ! IMO AW

  35. Anna says:

    ps to Andi: don’t know if you are reading this or not but i just think its so ironic you are on this forum and here is why:

    You recall how in about 2005 “we gave little Sweetheart her “Vitamin B-Complex shot(s) and YOU recall how great little Sweetheart did after the shots how she stood and ate !

    right ? and you recall how there were no side reactions at all?
    (to the Vitamin B-complex shots) right? and you know Sweetheart is a gorgeous tri-colored filly today up in WA

    so this is what is funny; there is another abandoned orphaned Foal (by the BLM who causes many orphan foals yr.

    another mustang foal named HoneyBandit; sooooo; I wrote to HB owner and said: maybe the B-complex might help HB based on the great experience with Little (Big) Sweetie !
    (i have been studying nutrition for over 41 years of course)
    so she writes me to say: Vitamins are dangerous; Vitamins can have catostrscopic effects; Vitamins are very tricky;

    so now she’s got me worried; about the safety of Vitamins

    even though I KNOW WATER SOLUBLE VITAMINS ARE SAFE
    and effecitve and are ESSENTIAL NUTRIENTS

    so i was just comparing how easy it was to work with you and how great the foal came out: Palomino’s foal honeybandit
    keeps falling and getting stuck; this is a nervous system disrorder and B vitamins are food for the nerves 100% safe!

    so my experience with you was better than with honeybandit!
    so i just hope honeybandit gets her vitamins safely; geez !
    just my 2 c ! ps did Sweetheart have any neg. reaction to B1?

    • Roxy says:

      Anna, great info. I have been delving into human nutrition and vitamins and have discovered this which I will say is probably parallel with Veterinary Medicine:

      Doctors under political and lobby pressure and under the financial gain of chemical medicine all say vitamins are dangerouse – however there is no real scientific proof of this – there is much scientific and practical proof of vitamins and diet having real benefits against many (almost all) chronic and acute illness.

      However, medical doctors incomes are dependent on two things – sales of chemical prescriptions and you (or your animal) not being well.

      I do know many doctors who do advocate vitamins and organic raw food (you only need 51% of daily calories to impact our health) – they are often outcast and even at threat of being removed from insurance lists – very sad state of affairs in this country.

      • Anna says:

        Thank you Linda: I will be sure to forward this page to the owner of HoneyBandit so she can feel “safe about giving Vitamins; esp. the water soluble B-Vitamins;

        I will recommend the Vitamin B-Complex as well; thnx!

        ps B-Complex and B1 occur naturally in Rice Bran; etc!

  36. Andi says:

    They can get an overdose of B and have a reaction. However, as you know in Sweetheart’s case, she was on the verge of death so it was a last ditch effort. I think I slept in her stall in the dead of winter for what, 2-3 weeks? Dang it was cold and she kept stealing my blanket AND pillow!

    And happy to say Sweetheart is 5 years old now and doing well!

    • Anna says:

      you did great Andi !: the way Sweetie the sick foal responded to The Vitamin B-Complex shot was amazing !
      remember how we used to call Sweetheart “the Amazing !

      I have not been able to duplicate this “vitamin healing and energy with any other foal yet tho’; most scoff the idea a simple Vitamin can treat a “disease; but I keep trying to tell people about Vitamins; daily ! everywhere I go ! lol !

      anyhoo: the difference between you and Palomino the gal nursing HoneyBandit is this: you had confidence in Sweetie

      if I said: what if sweetie needs extra b vitamins in future and she does not get; you would say; don’t worry; she will be fine; she will be as healthy as any other horse; u r right!

      where as Palomino if I suggest a Vitamin she freaks out !

      gosh vitamins are dangerous and blah blah blah and etc

      so she got me worried sick ! oh oh maybe hb will have reaction to the vitamin pellets i recommeded

      so I had to quit “working with Palomino ! although HB is doing better; much better; gained alot of weight etc; hb

      has a way to go; will post video in a bit; thanks ! peace ! !

      • Laura Leigh says:

        Anna… before you blow too much sunshine up Andi’s skirt… why don’t you start to ask your self why BLM will release foals to certain people? Why don’t you ask yourself why BLM has no “protocol” to follow to allow individuals to take these animals? It is not that they are better qualified because there is no official procedure.
        Why don’t we all start asking for copies of the “agreements?”

        I have… I was told in no uncertain terms to ever mention the name of one of the people that get these babies and I would never see the receipts…? Receipts? For expenses.

        Start asking why…

        • Anna says:

          Laura

          honestly and truly you do not think Andi Harmon a blm volunteer who has nursed approximately 20 wild sick mustang foals back to health

          and not to mention the countless adults

          you do not think ANDI CAN STOP THE ROUNDUPS DO YOU ?

          DO YOU THINK ANDI IS IN CONTROL OF THE ROUNDUPS

          ANDI COULD NO MORE STOP THE ROUNDUPS THAN I COULD FLY TO THE MOON

          DON’T BLAME ANDI HARMON FOR WHITE FACED PIGS IN WASHINGTON PLEASE ! luv ya tho’

        • Anna says:

          believe me when I tell you; the reason the BLM treats mustangs like shit and burros like crap
          and does not adopt out foals

          has nothing to do with Andi Harmon

          jsut want to be clear: Andi Harmon is NOt employed by the BLM ;

          andi harmon is a blm volunteer; she does not get paid; yet she rescues foal after foal after foal

          why are you people so against Andi Harmon

          what the hell did she do? I know why people are against me; because I do not bow to the FDA!

          becuase the people bow down to the FDA.gov.!

          ps anyone who thinks Vitamins are dangerous is

          wholly ignorant

          in the history of the world; not one bad reaction has ever been recorded as to oral vitamins

          ONLY VITAMIN SHOTS HAVE SOME MINOR RISKS

          THAT IS WHY I NEVER RECOMMEND VIT. SHOTS
          EXCEPET IF THE ANIAMAL IS DOWN; and cannot rise

          I ALWAYS RECOMMEDN THE VITAMINS BY MOUTH

          AND THERE IS NOT ONE RECORDED CASE OF ADVERSE REACTIOSN TO VITAMINS BY CRITTERS IF GIVEN BY MOUTH

          SO PEOPLE WHO SAY VITS ARE DANGEROUS ARE
          THE PEOPLE WHO

          HOLD UP THE HEALING OF SICK CRITTERS ! IMO

          TO JAN LORI AND MORGAN LUVER

          WHY DON’T YOU ALL GO OVER TO PALOMINO;S HOUSE AND BUILD HER A SHED FOR HONEYBANDIT INSTEAD OF YACKING YOUR MOUTHS OFF

          THEIR MINI GOT ATTACKED BY A MOUNTAIN LION

          SO THEY HAVE TO HAVE A SHED BUILT ASAP !

  37. Laura Leigh says:

    Folks… don’t waste your time responding to Andi.

    WE have more important things to do.

  38. Lori Schmidt says:

    OM Gosh Anna, I dont know if anyone else shares my sentiments but please will you go away, you are talking down to Palomino who is certainly a well versed and experienced horse person especially when it comes to sick foals, will you take your little jabs, suggestions, “anyhoos”, “peace” and correspondence with Andi to a private e-mail, we do not need to be hearing your immature little comments here, geez how old are you anyway.

    Sorry Laura she has just gotten on my last nerve this morning!

    • jan eaker says:

      Lori, behind you 100% as to “Anna”, she is WAY off base w/ her comments re: Palomino,

      Anna, as regards the vitamins you suggest, because you are a licensed veterinarian???? Palomino has carefully documented why she is being so careful with HoneyBandit, on the advice of actual, licensed vets AND her experience nursing another critical foal back to health.

      • Anna says:

        you go Jan @ ps how is the one mustangs you adopted

        ps who the hell is lori smidt and finally to morganluver

        I didn’t quite get your answer on “what YOU would do with the excess mustangs left to breed wild ?

        what is your plan ? i have given you mine; MY plan is to build a montrous Sancturay

        planted with millions of trees and sage brush galore

        my corrals would be made only of wood logs

        there would be no Plastic allowed on the sanctuary!

        in my sancturay; mares and stallions would be separated and Stallions and mares woudl not be “forced to breed the way the BLM sets up 275 Stallions into a herd of grazing mares

        like they did this year and every years; see….I would not purposely to to OVERBREED MUSTANGS year after year like the BLM DOES BY PUTTING STALLIONS INTO A HERD OF UNFIXED MARES SO THE HERDS DOUBLE

        I WOULD NOT BE LIKE THAT ! I would use controlled breeding

        by selecting the best stallions; and matching the stallion with a certain mare; not willy nilly breeding;

        called Selective Breeding: Jacob of the Old Testament discovered Selective Breeding with Goats way back over 5,000 years ago; I am with jacob 100% with his knowledge of livestock and selevtive humane breeding
        PEACE TO LORI

        PEACE AND LOVE PEACE AND KINDNESS PEACE AND HOPE FAITH AND LOVE PEACE REIGNS PEACE IS THE ANSWER THERE WILL BE AN ANSWER LET IT BE LORI PLS.! peace is the only answer for our critters ! peace
        Peace girl peace peace not war; peace not roundups

        hey lori ya got something against Peace? u foolish !

        • morganlvr says:

          Anna, I didn’t bother to answer your question about what I would do with wild horses born where they BELONG because I thought it was a stupid question. However, IF you insist –

          I would leave them alone absolutely as much as possible. Studies of undisturbed wild Mustangs have PROVEN that the BLM’s constant disruptions of herd dynamics causes the horses to breed FASTER, to make up the difference as it were. This is a well known mammalian response. If left alone, the herd will stabilize it’s numbers to match what the range will carry. In other words, the NATURAL reproduction rate for horses IS 10%, but by continued periodic roundups the BLM has CAUSED the rate to go to almost 20%!

          If they would leave them alone, they would be able to do minimal on the range management and everyone would be happy. It would also help if the horses had at least SOME of THEIR designated land returned to them.

          Okay?

    • Morgan Griffith says:

      I’m with you Lori, Anna I thought what you wrote concerning Palomino’s care of HB and the manner in which you stated it was dreadful and heartless. How dare you. You are not a member of HB’s care team and your ascertions to the efficacy of vitamins that you are trying to push down Palomino’s throat is wholly off-base. I think you owe Palomino a huge apology as to your trite suggestions that she is doing anything but giving HB the best in care. There are many theories as to how best take care of a critically ill animal. Many are just that, theories. Back off Palomino and HB, she doesn’t need the stress as it will translate to HB who also doesn’t need it.

  39. sandra longley says:

    The truth is, I have seen too many despicable acts committed on the wild horses this year and spent too much time investigating policys and protocols and reading reports and scientific studies to have a sympathetic point of view toward BLM policies and helicopter roundups..and I am sick to death of the butality across the west in all of these HMAs which i find to full of wild horses in great condition with the exception of the few..which in wildlife..will always be the case..we don’t remove the deer and antelope if we see some skinny ones..I have seen herds of elk from jackson Hole to vernonia being fed in the winter to keep them from starving..I see no mass removals of wildlife to the midwest..and wouldn’t we scream if they did this? If we spent 1/10 of this money on facilitating adoptions we wouldn’t have standing room only in LTH facilities..The BLM should be mandated -to not remove more horses than they can adopt..pure and simple..the rest should be returned to the HMAs, horses should only be removed in small numbers that can be bait trapped and don’t tell me it can’t be done..In the EAs they state they are removing because they are congregating in certain areas..when I discussed this with Dr. Kane and said that should make it easy to bait trap..he said emphatically-there were too many water sources-and I said..your EA says you are removing them because there are not enough water sources..and people critisize us for not believing their “facts”..hell they don’t even believe them…LOL

  40. Anna says:

    ya know what you people on this forum are who think I push vitamins

    YOU PEOPLE ARE NUTS

    IF I HAD NOT GOTTON SWEETHEART THE VITAMINS IN 2005
    THE LITTLE FOAL WOULD NOT HAVE SURVIVED

    BUT YOU WOULD NEVER BELEIVE THAT YOU ARE TOO IGNORANT

    WILL YOU PEOPOLE GET OFF MY M-FUCKING BACKS !

    I AM DUN WITH THIS FOURM GOOD BYE FOREVER AND EVER

  41. Morgan Griffith says:

    Probably a good idea seeing the tone of your posts here. I’ve heard that before though.

  42. Anna says:

    ALWASY REMEMBER THIS TO LORI JAN ET AL

    your immature little comments here, geez how old are you anyway.
    SEE YOU DON’T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT VITAMINS YOU ARE DUMB AND IGNORANT AND UNKNWOLEDGABE

    SO DID YOU KNOW THIS

    IF A GOAT HAS A DEFICIENCY OF THIAMINE VITAMIN B1 AND THE ANIMAL DOES NOT GET THE THIAMINE VITMAIN B1 IN 72 HOURS OR LESS

    THE GOAT DIES

    IF A CATTLE HAS A DEFICIENY OF THIAMIEN AND DOES NOT GET THIAMIEN B1 THE CATTLE DIES IN 2 – 3 DAYS

    IF A SHEEP HAS A DEFICIENCY OF THIAMIEN B1 AND THE SHEEP OR LAMB DOES NOT GET THIAMIEN VITAMIN B1
    THE SHEEP OR LAMB GOES COMPLETELY BLIND !

    SINCE YOU THINK I AM IGNORANT: DO YOU KNOW WHAT THESE WORDS

    TO LORI WHO SAID THIS your immature little comments here, geez how old are you anyway.
    HERE ARE SOME OF MY IMMATURE COMMENTS

    DO YOU KNOW WHAT THEYSE WORDS MEAN MISS GENIUS?

    Cyancobalamin; Pernicous Anemia; PolioEnchaphalitis; Anuerin; PolyNeuropathy; SubAcute Combined Degeneration of the Spinal Cord and Column; Beri-Beri:

    HUH GIRL ? DO YOU KNOW WHAT THOSE WORDS MEAN?

    CyanoCobalmin is Vitamin B12
    Pernicious Anemia is a Deficiency of Vitamin B12
    Subacte degeneration spinal is a Deficiency of Vitamin B12
    PolyNeuropathy is A Deficicney of Thiamien Vitamin B1 etc
    Beri Beri is the fatal disease of a Deficiency of Thiamine
    Scurvy is the fatal disease of a Deficiency of Vitamin C

    NOW GET THE F OFF MY BACK AND LIVE YOUR OWN LIVES!
    PS tHIAMINE VITAMIN B1 actually prevents Caridac disese ‘just liek Calicum prevnet Osteoporosis

    NOW GET REAL AND STOP TALKING LIKE THE FDA U FOOLS

    IF SWEETIE AND THOUSANDS OF OTHER ANIMALS DO NOT GET PROPER NUTRITON THEY DO NOT THRIVE !

    AND YES pALOMINO IS WAY IGNORANT ABOUT VITAMINS!

    AND SO ARE YOU ALL; GOD HELP ME IF I POST ONE MORE X!

    I QUIT WORKING WITH THE CITIZNE; I W WITH CONGRESS!

    • morganlvr says:

      I knew all that too, Anna. That proves nothing. Sure, dose if they are deficient. HOWEVER, if they are NOT deficient and/or you overdose with the fat-soluble vits, you can indeed have an averse reaction.

      If you don’t know the difference between the danger of fat-soluble vitamins as opposed to water-soluble ones – which get flushed out by the kidneys if they’re not needed – you need to learn.

  43. Anna says:

    I have seen herds of elk from jackson Hole to vernonia being fed in the winter to keep them from starving.

    ps they feed the Elk to fatten them up to “shoot them later during an elk hunt during elk hunting season

    they don’t feed them because “they are nice people ! see ya !

    ps to Lauri smidt i am 59 yo; studyign this stuff for 40 yrs./

    and guess waht you dont’ have to be a vet to give out Vits.!

    Vitamins are an over the counter not preiscirption u fools !

  44. Anna says:

    TO LORI SMITDT

    OH MY GOSH

    ANNA HAS GONE AWAY

    JUST THINK OF IT ANNA AND ANDI HAS GONE AWAY

    ANDI WHO HAS RECUSED OVER 25 FOALS AND 50 MUSTANGS AND FOUND HOMES FOR EACH ONE

    WE ARE GONE ! NOW GET BACK TO STOPPING THE ROUNDUP AND BELIEVE YOU ME

    LORI IF YOU DONT’ STOP THE ROUNDUPS

    WHO WILL YOU BLAME IF ON

    IF ANDI AND I ARE GONE HUG GIRL ?

    WHO WILL YOU BLAME NEXT FOR THE ACTIOSN OF YOUR GOV

    YOU TAXPAYING CHEAT ! GO LORI STOP THE ROUNDUPS

    YOU GO GIRL

    I EXPECT TO SEE YOU STOP THE ROUNDUPS TODAY GIRL !

    NOW GO STOP THE ROUNDUPS IF YOU ARE SO GD SMART !

    HOW MANY LETTERS AHVE YOU SENT TO YORU CONGRESS

    I HAVE SENT OVER 100 LETTERS TO MY CONGRESS IN 1 YR.

    MOST PEOPLE DONT’ DO THAT IN A LIFE TIME

    AND i HAVE SENT CONGRESS VIDOES AND PIX AND I AM WILL TO TESTIFY IN FRONT OF CONGRSS

    NO GO LORI GO STOP THE ROUNDUPS MISS SMARTY PANTS

    AND LORI I AM 59 AND HAVE BEEN A VEGETARAIN FOR 42 YEARS

    I HAVE BEEN A STRICT VEGETARIAN FOR 42 YEARS; PROB. LONGER THAN YOU HAVE BEEN ALIVE

    NOW GO GO BE A VEGETARIAN FOR THIS THANKSGIVING !

    DO NOT EAT ANY TURKEY LIKE I HAVE NOT FOR 42 YEARS
    AND MOST IMORITANTLY GET YOUR SLEF YOUR OWN LIFE

    AND STOP LIVING YOUR LIFE BY DEGRADING OTHERS

    B ECAUSE THIS IS WHAT THE BLM DOES TO MUSTANGS AND BURROS

    PS GOAT POLIO IS CURED WITH tHIAMINE VITMAIN B1 ! F-U

  45. Anna says:

    LAURA PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE ME SORRY GIRL NOT YER FAULT!

    but the people on this forum some of them sound like FDA

    you knwo the FDA who says Pomegrante juice is “dangerous

    that is why I gotta get away form the people on your forum

    they are too much liek the very establishement I
    despise

    every day the peopel on this forum ruin my day

    and i am not going to let you people ruin one more day

    I QUIT SIGNED ANNA WHITE AGE 59 VEGETARAIN SINCE 1967

    to Lori: do you know what PolioEnchephalitis is? ITS A DEFICENCY OF THIAMIEN VITMAIN B1 IN GOATS

    AND IF THE GOAT DOES NOT GET THIAMIEN VITMAIN B1
    IN 72 HOURS

    THE GOAT CURLS UP INTO A BALL… AND PERISHES !

    IF THE GOAT DOES NOT GET THIAMIEN VIT. B1 GOAT DIES

    IN 72 HOURS OR LESS

    JUST KEEP THINKING ABOUT THAT NIGHT AND DAY; THNX.

    IF A LAMB DOESNT[ GET THIAMINE THE LAMB GOES BLIND
    AND GET THIS ONE SHOT OF THIAMEN BRINGS THE EYESIGHT

    ITS ALL IN SICENTIRTC VET ARTICLES THAT I READ DAILY

    AND SWEETHEAR AND ANDI ARE TESTIMONY TO THE B1

    WHEREAS THE FOAL SURVIVED AND LIVED WITH THE b1

    SO TAKE YOU IGNORANCE AND YOU KNWO WAHT U CNA DO

  46. Anna says:

    just one final comment: you people are rude to Andi; and Andi has been running a Mustang Resuce ofor 20 years and has saved countless mustangs; why are you all against her ?

    do you want to see sick foals perish; that makes u the enemy!

    to Lori ANYHOO….MY CORRAL WOULD BE SO NATURAL LOOKING SO BIG SO MUCH LAND SO CAREFULLY PLANNED

    YOU WOULD NOT EVEN BE ABLE TO SEE THE SANCTUARY

    THE SANCTUARLY WOUDL BE SO HIDDENWITH TREES !

    WOULD BE LIKE THE KING SOLOMON OF ALL CORRALS

    THE MOTHER OF ALL HUMANE CORRALS

    MY CORRAL WOUDL BE SO 100% NATURAL THE EQUINE MUSTANG BURROS AND LLAMAM POSSIBLY ZEBRAS

    WOULD NOT EVEN KNOW THEY WERE IN A SANCTUARY!

    lori try being a vegetarian for one day and get back to me!
    anna white aka anne of conn. vegetarain for 42 years ! YAY!

    • morganlvr says:

      They would know they were in sanctuary is they weren’t intact and living in normal family bands.

      Holy Guacamole, Anna. This is Laura’s blog, not yours. SHE calls the shots here.

  47. Anna says:

    final comment to Laura; because the people on your forum “scare me and they make me tummy get all pitted up
    and so I want to get away form Jan Lori and morgna luver and the only way I nkow to do that is to quit yoru forum; sorry

    BUT MY QUESTION TO YOU LAURA LEIGH IS THIS

    I THINK IT IS BRAVE WONDERFUL AND FANSTASTIC WHAT YOU ARE DOING GOING TO THE ROUNDUPS AND DOCUMENTING THE MUSTANG ABUSE

    BUT WHAT DO YOU WANT US TO DO WITH THE INFORMATION?

    WHAT DO YOU WANT ME TO DO WITH THE VIDEOS?

    WHO DO YOU WANT ME TO SEND THE VIDEOS TO ?

    WHAT GOOD ARE THE VIDEOS IF NO ONE IN CONGRESS SEES THE BLM WICKED ABUSE TO THE MUSTANGS AND BURROS

    SO WHAT IS YOUR PLAN FOR US YOUR FOLLOWERS

    WHAT DO YOU WANT US TO DO WITH THE VIDEOS?

    SIT HOME AND CRY ?

    OH I DONT’ THINK SO

    SO WHAT IS YOUR LONG TERM PLAN FOR YOUR INVESTIGATIVE WORK

    BECAUE CONGRESS IS NOT GOING TO COME KNOCKING ON YOUR DOOR

    WE HAVE TO KNOCK ON CONGRESSES DOOR SO THAT IS WHY I MUST LEAVE Y’ALL

    AND GET BACK TO WRITING TO CONGRESS AND SENDING LAURA LAIEGH AND OTHER PEOPLE VIDEO TO CONGRESS

    THAT IS MY MISSION; IS THAT YOUR MISSION TOO? CURIOUS

    ps to lori jan or morgan luver DO NOT REPLY TO ANY OF MY MESSAGES BECAUSE IF YOU DO
    I WILL CONSIDER THAT TO BE “INTERNET HARRASSMENT !
    WATCH YOUR STEPS…just a warning; Anne white 1951 usa!

    STOP THE BLM BY STOPPING FIGHTING AMONGST YERSELVES

    TO LORI GOOD BY GOOD BY AND GOOD BY UNTIL NEVER !a

    • morganlvr says:

      If you mention my name, which you did SEVERAL times, I am within my rights to answer. You have NO idea how many times I’ve written to my reps in DC, or anything else that I do either.

      I could only harass you if I posted a bunch of messages on YOUR blog, Anna – like what you are doing here. And it will be a cold day in hell before I VOLUNTEER anything to you. Call my name and I will answer THAT and that alone.

      Bye now.

  48. Anna says:

    TO LORI AND ADIOS TO BOOT !

    • jan eaker says:

      since you addressed a question to me, Anna, I am responding; my mustang is doing very well,
      after rereading the posts, YOU are the one making threats and cursing at people, so it’s probably a good thing that you are finally and truly done w/ all of the blogs.

      • Lori Schmidt says:

        Sadly she is now frequenting The Clooud Foundation blog too. Oh dear. WOW I must have struck a nerve.

        For the record, I am a vegetarian, I have hand reared horses and I currently own 11 who I take total responsibility for even in very hard personal times, I am not an expert in anything, I phone, write and support this and the horse slaughter cause avidly, I have a great command of the english language, I have done my bit for Honey Bandit’s new stall already thank you, along with other causes, not physically but in other ways. Good Bye to you too.

      • Lori Schmidt says:

        Oh and for the record, I have taken note of Anna’s numerous threats to me, dont know where she comes up with the idea that I threatened her in any way, persecution complex maybe?

        • morganlvr says:

          I wondered about that too, Lori. I reread all the posts on this thread trying to find the “threat” Anna was referring to. I didn’t find anything even remotely resembling a threat. Beats me. 🙂

    • jan eaker says:

      Anna Wahpoose!!!! hope to god this IS adios, I know you are going on other blogs spewing a LOT of misinformation there, so I’m sure we will never be shut of you, however,when you call me out by name, I WILL respond, FYI, I’m 60, have 5 horses I am responsible for, work FT/PT to support my little herd, do not claim to know ALL about horses even though I’ve been learning about them for 57 years. Most of what you post is ridiculous to the extreme.
      PLease keep your threats/name calling away from me.

  49. cat Kindsfather says:

    EEEgads!!!

    Laura, please moderate!!! The war

  50. cat Kindsfather says:

    The negativity of late here is overwhelming.

    Just want to put in my respectful honors for Palomino!! We have all seen the near death images of Honey Bandit in the first days of his rescue, and his awesome body condition today! Palomino has had professional veterinary support through HB’s recovery and rejuvenation. She has done a fine job with him, never leaving his side, even to sleep at night! Whatever she has done and is doing for him, its been the right stuff! Palomino is a pro at saving foals from near death experience. She also brought Chili Pepper back from near death, when found freezing in the snow, suckling on his deceased mother! Give her the respect she deserves!!

    You rock Palomino!! ❤ CAT

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